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Red vs white: battle of poppies erupts in Canada

oneandonly wrote on 11/8/2006 6:04:11 PM :
Canada's war veterans are girding for a new battle, this time against peace activists they say have hijacked their long-standing floral symbol.

A store in Edmonton, Alberta, is distributing white poppy replicas that the Royal Canadian Legion said is a "disturbing" and "illegal" infringement of the red poppies worn on lapels since just after World War One to commemorate those killed in battle.

A Legion official said that Remembrance Day on November 11 is the only time of year they ask citizens to wear the poppies to pay tribute to the 117,000 military personnel who have died in conflict.

"It's something symbolic, which encroaches on a registered trademark, for one thing," Legion spokesman Rod Stewart said of the "white poppies for peace."

"But it puts a political slant on the meaning of Remembrance Day and that's unacceptable in our eyes."

White poppy distributor Michael Kalmanovitch, owner of Earth's General Store, said the version he's distributing was first produced in Britain in the 1930s to symbolize hope that humanity would move beyond armed conflict to solve disputes.

Kalmanovitch said he ordered 200 white poppies from the activist Peace Pledge Union in London. It his his third year of distributing them.

Legion officials have told him that poppies of any colour are their registered trademark and the alternative ones are illegal.

But Kalmanovitch said he has no intention to stop distributing the white symbols. He said he wears both versions, and does not consider the white ones to be discourteous to the Legion.

"We're not saying 'or', we're saying 'and'," Kalmanovitch said. "I do respect those people who went off and got hurt or killed in those wars ... but I hope we live in a society where everything can withstand criticism or examination."

The tradition of wearing commemorative red poppies in Canada, Britain and other counties comes from the World War One poem "In Flanders Fields", a tribute to the fallen written by Canadian Lt-Col John McCrae, which begins: "In Flanders fields the poppies blow, Between the crosses row on row..."

oneandonly wrote on 11/8/2006 6:05:51 PM :

In 1981 the United Nations General Assembly passed resolution 36/67 declaring an International Day of Peace.
In 2001, the United Nations General Assembly adopted a new resolution 55/282 declaring 21 September of each year as the international
Day of Peace.


If they want to sell white poppies for Sept 21 I can see no

problem with that. Nov. 11 is Remberance day for which the red poppy

is symbolic. This is just another case of people trying to push their own

agenda and say the hell with tradition.

willie c wuddle wrote on 11/8/2006 7:36:57 PM :
Right on.Yes [Y]
AvonSomethingForEveryone wrote on 11/8/2006 7:41:47 PM :

It is shameful to compete with the Legions during "Red" Poppy Season. 

I certainly hope that this person it at the very least not personally profiting from the sale of these white poppies and not leading people to believe he is representing the Legions - I would not put anything past someone who would compete with our veterans in November!

willie c wuddle wrote on 11/9/2006 7:15:03 AM :
I bet he was no where around them when they were fighting the war(s).
oneandonly wrote on 11/9/2006 8:11:07 AM :
Image from ???Legion takes on activists in War of the Poppies???                               The Royal Canadian Legion is threatening to bring out its big guns ??? the lawyers ??? in a war with peace activists over poppies.

Veterans say the activists are unlawfully selling white poppies in a fundraising drive that violates trademark rights to the scarlet poppy, which they say belongs to the Legion.

Already, an Edmonton store owned by Michael Kalmanovitch that has been selling the so-called ???poppies for peace??? has been shipped proof by the Legion's intellectual property lawyer that the veterans association owns the image, regardless of the flower's colour, and has been asked to stop.

???If he [Kalmanovitch] doesn't, then we will proceed with further legal action,??? explained Steven Clark, the Ottawa-based remembrance co-ordinator who oversees the poppy trademark for the Legion.

???It is something that we have to make sure is safeguarded, is protected and we will take the necessary steps to make sure that it is.???

The red poppy has been Canada's symbol of remembrance since 1921 and stems from Lieutenant-Colonel John McCrae's famous poem, In Flanders Fields, which speaks to the fear that the war dead will be forgotten. Canadians, and others in countries around the world, wear poppies over their hearts leading up to Remembrance Day on Nov. 11 as a pledge that the deaths of military personnel, in Canada's case 117,000 of them, have not been in vain.

The tradition of the white poppy, which was the brainchild of the Women's Co-Operative Guild in Britain, dates back to 1993 as a tribute to peace. It has been exported to Canada over the years, but for the first time, the Legion's head office says it has been informed about the practice and it's not about to roll over.

Mr. Kalmanovitch, who has owned Earth's General Store in Edmonton since it opened in 1991 and has been selling white poppies for the past three years, said he has been contacted by a Legion official. However, he won't consider ceasing white poppy sales until he's officially been notified by the Peace Pledge Union, a British organization that took over from the Women's Co-Operative Guild to distribute the white poppies worldwide.

Mr. Kalmanovitch's shop, which offers environmentally and socially friendly products, has been selling the poppies for $2 apiece, with the proceeds used to fund the store's ???activism??? efforts around the city. Most customers, he added, are supportive of the white poppy drive. The shop sold the last of its 200 poppies yesterday and has ordered more.

???It has started a lot of healthy debate,??? he said.

Marya Nyland, who belongs to an international peace organization, Women in Black, which has been distributing the white poppies across Canada for the last 11 years, said it's ridiculous that the Legion is considering a lawsuit, especially since the white poppy has been around almost as long as the red poppy.

???Peace is free. You never buy peace,??? said Ms. Nyland, who lives in Victoria, explaining why the group gives the poppies away for free across the country.

The white poppies ??? about 12,000 are distributed every November in Canada ??? have always raised the ire of veterans, she said.

???I've had nasty calls from veterans. I've been harassed,??? she said. ???They feel that the red poppy should be it. Why shouldn't there be room for both????

Ms. Nyland said most of her friends wear both poppies as a way to honour both the military and civilians who died in past wars.

???Remembering isn't enough,??? she said.

But Harvey Shevalier, president of the Legion's Alberta-Northwest Territories Command which has 52,000 members, isn't swayed.

???It's offensive and it's disturbing that this white poppy would appear at this time of year,??? he said. ???To me, the white poppy is an insult to the veterans. The Women in Black organization, I think, are piggybacking on the sacred time of the year.???

Mr. Shevalier, who served in the army and worked with NATO and UN forces, said veterans aren't against peace, but Nov. 11 should not be used to make a political statement.

It also detracts from the Legion's primary fundraising drive, which raised about $15-million in 2004 (the most recent campaign it has calculated). The money is dedicated to the care of veterans and their dependants in need and funds programs such as meals on wheels, supplemental housing costs and medical equipment.

Instead, said the Legion's Mr. Clark, peace activists should focus their efforts on Sept. 21, which is the UN-sanctioned International Day of Peace. But even then, he added, white poppies would infringe on the Legion's trademark. He suggested they use a different symbol such as a dove.

???Nov. 11 is the day that we honour our veterans. We need to make sure that that does not get confused, combined or anything else with another campaign,??? he said.

Cautiouslizard wrote on 11/9/2006 9:09:17 AM :
Aren't we celebrating and remembering the veterans that fought the war? I always assumed we were. Isn't the goal of most people in the world is peace?  So where is teh big deal with wearing both. One is for the veterans that fought in the war and the other is for peace so no one else will go through what they did.
Cautiouslizard wrote on 11/9/2006 9:12:51 AM :
All it's doing, is making a big deal out of nothing. People shouldn't be arguing during this time of year but that's what they are doing. We need to remember and also make peace.
oneandonly wrote on 11/9/2006 5:45:57 PM :
the history of the red poppy and how it became a symbol of remembrance;http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/remember/johnmccrae_e.html
Paladin wrote on 11/9/2006 5:55:19 PM :
On November 11th at 11am, we acknowledge that the First World War officially ended. Hostilities had ceased. The fightening had ended and "Peace" was restored to our War Ravaged World.That Red Poppy also stands for Peace, while acknoledgeing the human sacrifices that went into achiving it.This group of anti war protesters is trying to hijack Rememberence Day for their own adjenda.That is wrong.
mike6x5 wrote on 11/9/2006 9:13:15 PM :

Agreed.

I have no problem with anti-war types...in fact, I'm kind of one of them.  But to contest the red poppies with these absolutely silly white ones is a mockery of our war dead as well as those who are serving now.

Let these activists find a symbol of their own.

Cautiouslizard wrote on 11/10/2006 7:29:33 AM :
Where are they contesting the red poppies? These white ones have been around for almost as long as teh red poppies. So the tradition of the red poppies were not that strong back then when teh white ones were invented by the wives. All they represent is peace. There should be hard feelings towards them as they only represent peace. The red poppy represent the people that fought. I wouldn't agree to only get a white poppy, and defenatly always get a red one each year but I see no reason for people to make a fuss at this time a year for such a small token of peace, we have better things to think about at this time. They are all for good causes and the red poppies are not being band, it's not like having the white poppy will make us forget. It's just to remember the end results of what the veterans fought so hard for.
mike6x5 wrote on 11/10/2006 10:10:15 AM :

You make some very good points, CL.  But, I sincerely doubt that most of those who support the white poppies see your point of view.  Too many think that diplomacy should have been the only way to deal with monsters like Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler, etc.  Those goons, and many like them today, are of the mindset of take no prisoners, and power is the only option.  The red poppies are uniquely symbolic of the efforts of those who defeated such monsters, and for those who guard against them today.

I do applaud you for your views though.  Quite honorable indeed!

Cautiouslizard wrote on 11/10/2006 11:49:28 AM :

Thank you. I only assumed most people would see my point of view as it's all for peace in the world and there shouldn't be stupid issues like this that maked head line news.

There are starving people, people that are going to freeze this winter, without selter or even proper clothes to keep them semi warm. With everything that is going on that is so much worse, people have ntohing better to do than argue about a stupid white poppy.

I am appauld by this selfish world for even considering of making a big stink for nothing, where there are way bigger issues that are being ingnored or just simply pushed aside to forget we even have those problems. I would just want the world to open they're eyes and see actual problems and stop fussing over little things that don't change nothing.

Rich people keep there money while watching poor people die on the streets and they don't even care. I should start a flower symbol to make people remember we have real issues that are not being delt with  and we need not to focus on stupid little things like the white poppies.  

The world is so self centered.

BlinkeredKitten wrote on 11/10/2006 12:09:34 PM :
When you start that flower campaign, I can only support it if it's not another form of the poppy. Wink [;)]
Cautiouslizard wrote on 11/10/2006 12:32:20 PM :
Lol I agree. I don't have anything really that would go with a different color poppy as the red and white is already taken. Could be a daisy. That would be a nice cheerful flower to support the cause.
BlinkeredKitten wrote on 11/10/2006 12:34:25 PM :
Well, Johnny Cash's "Man In Black" approach didn't seem to get their attention, so something bright like a daisy might be more up to the challenge. Smile [:)]
Cautiouslizard wrote on 11/10/2006 12:50:30 PM :
I am just so passionate about all the poverty we have in this world then I read about the rich and famous that wants to pretend to help. They can help they don't need to have a house that you need a car to get from one end of it to the other, donate most of the money to poverty, they live with millions of dollars and make millions more each year but donate a few thousands to charaty that take like half of the donations. I'm not even close to being comfortable with my money (I stuggle like most people that has to work full time and raise a child without child support) but I still donate a portion of my bi weekly check to United way. Rich people don't need all that money to live. It's not right. (I'm not saying I need some money, but there is enough money in america to spread it around abit and have less kids on teh streets begging for money to eat)
oldman wrote on 11/10/2006 3:43:34 PM :
it has always been the red poppy and i feel it should remain so
notme wrote on 11/10/2006 4:01:42 PM :

red is the color of blood  and that is what our veteran spread on foreign lands to save our country

 

so let it stay red

oneandonly wrote on 11/10/2006 7:55:12 PM :
the white poppy was worn by the widows of the war,unless your a war widow you dont have the right to wear this poppy.