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Abortion Facts:

WWJD wrote on 8/7/2006 8:02:08 PM :

Surgical Abortions

There are many methods of abortion. The procedure used depends largely upon the stage of pregnancy and the size of the unborn child. Dr. J.C. Willke, in his book, Abortion Questions and Answers (Hayes Publishing Co. Inc, Cincinnati, 1985), has divided the methods of abortion into three main categories: those that invade the uterus and kill the child by instruments which enter the uterus through the cervix; those that kill the preborn child by administration of drugs and then induce labour and the delivery of a dead baby; and, those that invade the uterus by abdominal surgery.

Dilation of the uterus is required in cervical methods of abortion. The usual method of dilation is to insert a series of instruments of increasing size into the cervix. A set of dilators, metallic curved instruments, are used to open the cervix sufficiently to accommodate the instruments of abortion. In contrast with a normal birth, where the dilation occurs slowly over a period of many hours, the forceful stretching by the abortionist to open the cervix takes a matter of seconds. This premature and unnatural stretching of the cervix can result in permanent physical injury to the mother.

Laminaria (dehydrated material, usually seaweed) is sometimes used to reduce damage to the cervix. Inserted into the cervix the day before the scheduled abortion, it absorbs water and swells, gradually pushing open the cervix in the process.


Eight-week pre-born baby

At eight to nine weeks the eyelids have begun forming and hair appears. By the ninth and tenth weeks the preborn child sucks her thumb, turns somersaults, jumps, can squint to close out light, frown, swallow, and move her tongue.

At this early stage of development, suction abortions are performed using a smaller tube, requiring little dilation of the cervix. This is called "menstrual extraction." However, if all the fetal remains are not removed, infection results, requiring full dilation of the cervix and a scraping out of the womb.

 

Suction Aspirationclick for larger image

This is the most common method of abortion during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. General or local anaesthesia is given to the mother and her cervix is quickly dilated. A suction curette (hollow tube with a knife-edged tip) is inserted into the womb. This instrument is then connected to a vacuum machine by a transparent tube. The vacuum suction, 29 times more powerful than a household vacuum cleaner, tears the fetus and placenta into small pieces which are sucked through the tube into a bottle and discarded.

Dilation and Curettage (D&C)

This method is similar to the suction method with the added insertion of a hook shaped knife (curette) which cuts the baby into pieces. The pieces are scraped out through the cervix and discarded [Note: This abortion method should not be confused with a therapeutic D&C done for reasons other than pregancy.]


Twelve-week pre-born baby

By the end of the third month all arteries are present, including the coronary vessels of the heart. Blood is circulating through these vessels to all body parts.

The heart beat ranges during this fetal period from 110 to 160 beats per minute. All blood cells are produced by the liver and spleen, a job soon taken over by the bone marrow. White blood cells, important for immunity, are formed in the lymph nodes and thymus.

Vocal chords are complete, and the child can and does sometimes cry (silently). The brain is fully formed, and the child can feel pain. The fetus may even suck his thumb. The eyelids now cover the eyes, and will remain shut until the seventh month to protect the delicate optical nerve fibers.

 

14 weeks - Muscles lenghten and become organized. The mother will soon start feeling the first flutters of the baby kicking and moving inside.

15 weeks - The fetus has an adult's taste buds and may be able to savor the mother's meals.

16 weeks - Five and a half inches tall and only six ounces in weight, eyebrows, eyelashes and fine hair appear. The child can grasp with his hands, kick, or even somersault.

Eighteen week pre-born baby

The fetus is now about 5 inches long. The child blinks, grasps, and moves her mouth. Hair grows on the head and body.

20 weeks - The child can hear and recognize mother's voice. Though still small and fragile, the baby is growing rapidly and could possibly survive if born at this stage. Fingernails and fingerprints appear. Sex organs are visible. Using an ultrasound device, the doctor can tell if the child is a girl or a boy. The one on the left is a baby girl.

 

Dilation and Evacuation (D&E)

This method is used up to 18 weeks' gestation. Instead of the loop-shaped knife used in D&C abortions, a pair of forceps is inserted into the womb to grasp part of the fetus. The teeth of the forceps twist and tear the bones of the unborn child. This process is repeated until the fetus is totally dismembered and removed. Usually the spine must be snapped and the skull crushed in order to remove them.

Salt Poisoning (Saline Injection): click for larger image

Used after 16 weeks (four months) when enough fluid has accumulated. A long needle injects a strong salt solution through the mother's abdomen into the baby's sac. The baby swallows this fluid and is poisoned by it. It also acts as a corrosive, burning off the outer layer of skin. It normally takes somewhat over an hour for the baby to die from this. Within 24 hours, labor will usually set in and the mother will give birth to a dead or dying baby. (There have been many cases of these babies being born alive. They are usually left unattended to die. However, a few have survived and later been adopted.)

 

Six month pre-born baby

Seen here at six months, the unborn child is covered with a fine, downy hair called lanugo. Its tender skin is protected by a waxy substance called vernix. Some of this substance may still be on the child's skin at birth at which time it will be quickly absorbed. The child practices breathing by inhaling amnionic fluid into developing lungs.


Prostaglandin Chemical Abortion: click for larger image

This form of abortion uses chemicals developed by the Upjohn Pharmaceutical Co. which cause the uterus to contract intensely, pushing out the developing baby. The contractions are more violent than normal, natural contractions, so the unborn baby is frequently killed by them -- some have even been decapitated. Many, however, have also been born alive.

 

Hysterotomy or Caesarean Section:

Used mainly in the last three months of pregnancy, the womb is entered by surgery through the wall of the abdomen. The technique is similar to a Caesarean delivery, except that the umbilical cord is usually cut while the baby is still in the womb, thus cutting off his oxygen supply and causing him to suffocate. Sometimes the baby is removed alive and simply left in a corner to die of neglect or exposure.

 

30 weeks - For several months, the umbilical cord has been the baby's lifeline to the mother. Nourishment is transferred from the mother's blood, through the placenta, and into the umbilical cord to the fetus. If the mother ingests any toxic substances, such as drugs or alcohol, the baby receives these as well.

32 weeks - The fetus sleeps 90-95% of the day, and sometimes experiences REM sleep, an indication of dreaming.

 

Five steps to a partial birth abortion:click for larger image

1) Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist grabs the baby's legs with forceps.

2) The baby's leg is pulled out into the birth canal.

3) The abortionist delivers the baby's entire body, except for the head

4) The abortionist jams scissors into the baby's skull. The scissors are then opened to enlarge the skull.

click for larger image

5) The scissors are removed and a suction catheter is inserted. The child's brains are sucked out, causing the skull to collapse. The dead baby is then removed.

 

40 weeks - The baby, now approximately seven and a half pounds, is ready for life outside its mother's womb. At birth the placenta will detach from the side of the uterus and the umbilical cord will cease working as the child takes his first breaths of air. The child's breathing will trigger changes in the structure of the heart and bypass arteries which will force all blood to now travel through the lungs.

newsong wrote on 8/7/2006 8:14:07 PM :
This is barbaric and evil and should be stopped!  It makes me truly sick!   Those poor babies as if they are just nothing but rubbish.  I think more of this should be shown people need to realise how evil they really are and we should stand up for the unborn helpless child.
WWJD wrote on 8/8/2006 1:18:51 PM :
Cautiouslizard wrote:
I am not saying that I would do it myself because I wouldn't not be able to live with myself. But there are different reasons for others to actually go through with it. I do not agree with women getting a abortion for no other reason than they just couldn't keep their legs closed but don't want a baby. I find that would be wrong but still up to them to live with the guilt that comes with it. But you cannot make someone feel assashed until you walked in their shoes. That's all I'm saying. Everyone has their reasons for doing what they do.


I agree that the decisions for abortions are varied and the emotional strain must be unimaginable.

However, does feeling stress, medical problems etc etc make killing an innocent baby OK?


Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/8/2006 1:40:17 PM :

I woulnd't be able to deal with the guilt wether it's because I just don't want to be pregnant or if it's because of medical problems. But some might think they have good reasons. I wouldn't be able to figure out a justifiable reason for me to go through with a abortion. But I'm just not against women that chooses to take that process for whatever reason they have.  

WWJD wrote on 8/8/2006 3:52:29 PM :
Neither are pro-life advocates against the women who choose to have abortions.

We are not AGAINST the women.

We are FOR the children.
Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/8/2006 6:27:48 PM :

It doesn't matter what you think is right or wrong. It's up to the mother making the decision. She has her reason to do so and who are you to tell her not to? She has her reason and she is the one to make the decision she thinks is best. Yes some people make the wrong ones for the wrong reason. But some do make it for the right ones and that is not up to you to decide which ones are right and which ones are wrong for someone else.

Bulert wrote on 8/8/2006 9:29:25 PM :

Yes it is a women???s decision, but let???s take rape out of the equation. Now it was also her decision to lie on her back. So in my opinion, you put it in, you push it out hunny. Rape is tragic, but if a child is the result of rape..do not give me that whole ??? mother will see the baby of her rapist??? bull because she can out it up for adoption. Sure it is painful for her, but so is having salt injected to kill. That guy is a whinner. Period. My friend Chris is an alcohol baby. My friend Karen has spent her life in a wheel chair because of a mistake her mom made with drugs. My friend???s brother Tim is mentally retarded because of drugs used during his development. All of these people MEAN something in this world and has as much right to life as you and I. I don???t care if you say ??? its the woman???s choice??? because nobody besides God should say who lives in dies. It is NEVER your place to kill ANYBODY. What part of that is so hard for you people to comprehend? Am I not saying it clear enough? DO-NOT-KILL-BABIES! There..that???s pretty clear. I hate the thought of it, and women who do have apportion should feel guilty, they killed a child. My friend died recently. His mom was 16 when she had him, and abortion was in her mind. If she had, I would not have met this amazing guy and he would never have touched our hearts as he did. You could be killing someone great. SO before you take the easy way out, remember your life and remember there are others who struggle to live, and you don???t give these people a chance. Pro-choice people. SHAME ON YOU!!!

 

15 and furious
willie c wuddle wrote on 8/8/2006 11:14:33 PM :
Bulert, Your wisdom for a 15 year old is amazing. What is up?
Bulert wrote on 8/8/2006 11:24:15 PM :
Thank you willie, although i get that comment alot, i am not entirly sure what it means. But thank you...Big Smile [:D]
Bulert wrote on 8/8/2006 11:25:43 PM :

wisedom is not determined by age, is is by experience, any old fool could tell you that

Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/9/2006 7:04:44 AM :
It is truly great to know that you woulnd't be able to get a abortion but my question for all is "Who are you to make that decision for someone else?" It doesn't matter if you think it is right or wrong no matter how strongly you feel about it. It is their right and it will always be. Wether it's by going to a hospital or a doctor or going on line and figuring out a way to induce a miscarrage. It has been going on in this world for ages. It doesn't matter how big your write your opinion on teh subject, women will still do it if they chose to and it's not going to be your opinion that's going to change it. You live your life as you see fit and guess what, they will too. It is against my morals but for some it is (maybe a easy way) a way out and the only one at the time, they think they have. It's not a easy decision to make. Did you ever kill a bug? Eat meat? played a drum with real animal skin on it? etc.... I mean people think they are so high and good btu when you really look into it that would mean you wouldn't dare kill a fly (because it is a living creature and how can you kill something that is alive). But you tell me that a mother cannot make her own choice to get a abortion.  
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 10:27:51 AM :

Well the whole thing about the animals and the bugs is bull. God made animals to eat and for fur. And I don???t give a rat???s ass if everyone thinks they have the right  to kill a baby. They don???t have a right, and if the want to go to a butcher, let them, they will probably die to. How can you say ??? its not right for me??? but you Condon it? You my friend, are a victim of a luke warm society who is too damn scared to offended to insult anyone then to have an opinion. It is the ??? sitting on the fence??? attitude that makes me very angry, and I think if you have an opinion, don???t be on the fence. This is another part of political-correctness, and it is turning our citizens into quivering babies. Abortion IS wrong, and I don???t care if you think I have a right to say that because its ??? my choice??? its not my choice, its god choice. Why don???t these children get a choice? At fifteen, I should be the one influenced by this society???s coward ways, but I am not. I know the pain these children go through so some teenage girl can save face to her mommy. I know the pain these children endure when they are injected with salt, and the mothers can feel the squirm, and scream. Don???t you dare tell me that is okay!! Yeah it???s their choice to go to hell if they want to. That poor kid never had a chance to be someone great. Killing a bug and a baby are very different things; don???t try to pull me with that bullshit. I am not a vegetarian; I just don???t really like the taste of meat so I don???t eat it a lot. Do I think eating meat is wrong? No, Jesus ate lamb. Are you calling Jesus a murderer? Would Jesus kill a baby? Ah, very different indeed. Anyone who condons it needs a good kick in the pants because they are cold hearted, evil, self-centered murderers. ABORTION IS SELFISH!!

 

That???s all there is to it.
WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 10:47:51 AM :
Cautiouslizard wrote:

It doesn't matter what you think is right or wrong. It's up to the mother making the decision. She has her reason to do so and who are you to tell her not to? She has her reason and she is the one to make the decision she thinks is best. Yes some people make the wrong ones for the wrong reason. But some do make it for the right ones and that is not up to you to decide which ones are right and which ones are wrong for someone else.



If it's not OK to tell a mother that killing her child is wrong, as you claim, then it's also not OK to tell a child molester that molesting children is wrong; BOTH are crimes and BOTH need to adressed as crimes.

Your views are inconsistent, CL.

For the record, the video I have made IS changing minds, so you're wrong; standing up for the innocent babies DOES make a difference.

I will continue to fight for the protection of children in the womb; it make sno difference what you or anyone thinks about it.

And as you say it is not up to us to decide what is right and wrong for others, why are YOU then telling us to remain quiet? Are YOU not trying to tell us it is wrong to voice our opinion? Practice what you're telling US to do.

You consistently make personal statements saying that we shouldn;t tell people what to do etc etc.. and yet here you are, over and over, telling US what to do.

Unbelievable.

PS: CL, comparing flies to the abortion issue is quite disturbing.... I'd never think of a child in the same terms as an insect... you have some warped views.

Subj:  Request for assistance
Date:  August 8, 2006 8:15:38 AM
From: *****@uic.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------
Good morning,

May the Lord continue to bless you on this beautiful day. I was in the web site and was in the video resource page. There is a video on abortion which has impacted my heart. I would like to share this video with other people. However,  when I tried to right click and download it, it comes up as a htm document. In addition to viewing the video through the web site, is there any way where it can be made available for download? Another thing, is the Jesse Boyer testimony available as an audio file?

I would appreciate your help in this matter.

In Christ, J. Perez



Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 10:53:05 AM :
It seems like WWJD and myself have similar views on the same issue here. I do not understand why you expect everyone to sit back quietly and allow murderers to keep on killing. Okay, lets release one convicted killer for every abortion that takes place. Same thing. And, in the case of Lacey Peterson, her hubby was charged with 2 accounts of murder. Wait, did you hear that right? Two! People still have abortion at eight months gestation. So, if it is murder then why not now? ANSWER ME THAT
Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/9/2006 11:08:25 AM :
If you guys opinion can change some women's mind, I have to applaud you because yes I do believe in giving the baby a chance to live. I'm just not for people that make others feel less just because of their personnal point of views. We are not God and we are not the ones that should judge someone's decisions in life. You do what you want with your life but don't judge someone's decisions. That's all I've been trying through out htis post.
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 11:13:26 AM :

I have changed the mind of a girl my age, dispite her mom???s views, I told her that her baby was a person and it was her choice not her moms. She has a beautiful boy name David. He big blue eyes and is very happy and well taken care of. I do not believe in degrading women over it either, but we are saying the things doctors do not say. It is not part of judging them, it is judging an action taken that took a life on another person. Okay, a man molests a child, do not judge them, only god can judge. A man kills your son, do not judge him though. DO you see my point?

WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 11:13:49 AM :
Cautiouslizard wrote:
If you guys opinion can change some women's mind, I have to applaud you because yes I do believe in giving the baby a chance to live. I'm just not for people that make others feel less just because of their personnal point of views. We are not God and we are not the ones that should judge someone's decisions in life. You do what you want with your life but don't judge someone's decisions. That's all I've been trying through out htis post.


No one here hates someone who has had an abortion and we don;t judge anyone wrongly.

We're simply satying it is WRONG to kill.

In the same way that telling a chid molester he is hurting a child, so we are here telling women that they are hurting children.

Do you think I CARE if I offend someone?

Trust me... I don't care ;)

I'll tell a child molester he's an idiot...I'm sure you'd agree.

It's odd that you PROTECT the feelings ofmoms who kill.

BOTH hurt children.

I have something to say about that, as do millions of others.

If you feel that that is "judgmental"...well, I'm not apologizing.

I esteem children highly.

Not murderers.

If you don;t like the FACTS we present, why aren;t you posting YOUR facts to show WHY we are wrong?

Why are you posting at all?

The only thing you have seen here is that we are judging others; the only thing I see is that you're defending murderers.

What's worse, CL?

Someone who protects children or someone who stands up for the ones who KILL children?

Think about that.
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 11:18:12 AM :
I also understand that in a situation where an abortion seems to be the only option is is a heartbreaking decision to make, but none the less, if you have sex, you should deal with the consequences. In school we are taught of every type of birth control, in reality, there is no reason to become pregnant. He was condoms, male and female, pills, matches, needles, operation, foams, sponges etc..
Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/9/2006 11:23:48 AM :
Abortion isn't against the law so you cannot compair it to murder. It is pro choice. It doesn't matter if you or anyone else thinks it's wrong. Until teh law gets changed women have a choice and they will keep on making those decisions whether it's imorral to you or not. It's not up to you. If you get to change their minds good for you.
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 11:28:40 AM :
The only reason it is legal is because women were doing it anyway because they are selfish. Its not good for me, its good for the children. I know I cant make the decision for them, but then again, they shouldn???t be able to make  decision for the child. It is the same thing as a murderer, legal or not. The law doesn???t mean anything. God has been taken out of everything because we are in a ??? feel good society??? where god doesn???t fit because the things we do are so morally wrong, dismissing him all together is easier than accepting the way things are. Everyone is screwing everyone. I mean, a woman who sleeps with more than one man is loose. And if she has a child because of it, that???s her sin not the child. Why does the law mean so much? A little crap on a paper made by people who are not the citizens? That kind of law means little to me.
WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 12:05:22 PM :
Cautiouslizard wrote:
Abortion isn't against the law so you cannot compair it to murder. It is pro choice. It doesn't matter if you or anyone else thinks it's wrong. Until teh law gets changed women have a choice and they will keep on making those decisions whether it's imorral to you or not. It's not up to you. If you get to change their minds good for you.


CL, you're not familiar with canadian Law, are you?

The laws are made BASED ON PUBLIC VOTE.

It's called D E M O C R A C Y.

We speak, you speak and the Government DECIDES.

That's HOW we implement law ini a democracy.

So, because we live in a free society, you won't be quiteing us anytime soon.

And oh... show me ONE POST where WE claim YOU shouldn;t have an opinion.

None of us said that.

YOU, on the other hand, DID say that men should NOT have a right to speak on this issue.

We live in a democracy, CL.

It's called "Freedom".

And because we have that freedom, no one will be taking it away anytime soon.
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 12:30:41 PM :

Hahaha, our government does not pass laws like that....... We are far behind the U.S. in being a "true" democracy. We're much more socialist then the U.S. . Pure and true democracy fails because the general public is stupid.

WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 1:29:14 PM :
Faulty wrote:

Hahaha, our government does not pass laws like that....... We are far behind the U.S. in being a "true" democracy. We're much more socialist then the U.S. . Pure and true democracy fails because the general public is stupid.



Wrong again, Faulty.

The Conservative Government is RE opening issues that they will allow the PEOPLE to vote on that the Liberals passed without our vote.

Democracy is coming back.
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 1:36:07 PM :

In three years I can have a say in that happens in this country, right now my opinion means crap all. It bothers me how adults do not use their power to stand up, yet you coward down and let the government walk on you. You follow this feel good society which is on the fence and luke warm. Shame on all of you

Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 12:30:52 PM :
Why shouldn???t men have an opinion? What did she crawl on herself and get pregnant? Men are just as much responsible as women are. People say ??? well the women ends up with the kid??? yes but the men end up working 2 jobs to pay for that kid. A man has every right to be an active father if that???s what he wants. Does a women have the right to take that away from him? How cruel is that? The craziness
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 12:33:46 PM :
Although I don't think it will ever be outlawed, my outlook is that it's better them having it done in a hospital with sterilization, proper procedures etc. Instead of out in an alley somewhere with a coat hanger. Don't laugh, it happens. More often than not both die. Some times you have to do something that's immoral to save more lives.
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 12:36:30 PM :
Yes, I actually mention that before, and I said it was selfish. What the hell is wrong with a women that she kills her baby using coat hangers and all kinds of craziness..insanity. That is exactly why it is legal it isn???t because anyone agrees with it, its because people have to or some stupid women go and mutilate their bodies to get rid of a child..SIck
Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/9/2006 12:43:01 PM :
If it isn't because anyone agrees with it, then why would people do it and alot fight for the right to keep abortion legal?
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 12:46:25 PM :
It is legal because some women feel the need to murder their fetus. It is proven that the majority of the population is Pro-life..so is the law for the people?
Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/9/2006 12:49:07 PM :

Bulert wrote:
It is legal because some women feel the need to murder their fetus. It is proven that the majority of the population is Pro-choice..so is the law for the people?

That's why is is not against the law. Most people see it as teh mother's right to choose.

Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 1:00:19 PM :
OMG sorry that was a typo..pro-choice is the minority. I meant that it is stated in a report that the majority of the population is PROLIFE..so is it really a democracy?
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 1:01:22 PM :

The majority of the people believe in pro-life. It is a very slight majority, but none the less...

Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 1:02:43 PM :
all of these 'reports' are full of shyte. on both sides. They either use screwed up sample pools or skew data to show their agenda.
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 1:12:43 PM :
Well i got mine out of my PD class..this year..given in the abortion and sexual health section..so..thats where mine comes from
WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 1:36:32 PM :
Cautiouslizard wrote:
If it isn't because anyone agrees with it, then why would people do it and alot fight for the right to keep abortion legal?


10% of Canadians believe Pedophelia is "OK".

So, what if the Government passes a law taht says it's "OK"?

Does that mean you'll then support child rapists?

Sure, that's a little far out, but nonetheless, you seem to think, "If it's legal, it must be right."

I don't care if you and a thousand governments say it's "OK"....

It is NOT ok.

It makes no difference what you say.

It MIGHT make a difference if you could back your statements with facts rather than random opinions.

However, it doesn't appear that you know what you're talking about, CL.

If you do, show us... prove it....state your case...not your opinions which are nothing moe than unfounded ramblings against innocent children.

I find that whenever there's a thread on an issue that yuo DO NOT have facts on, you come in any state your opinions anyway... without being able to actually prove anything.

Unfortunately, it's sad that you believe something based on fantasy and some lie your gynecologist told you.






Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 1:40:52 PM :
If we're going to do this, then. Dan, it does not matter what you say.  You'll never change your mind about anything, even if you're wrong. I have simply come to that conclusion based on anything I've seen you write/say. You're stuck in your ways. There's no point arguing with you.
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 1:45:10 PM :
Oh, is it wrong to believe in something knowing what you have been given? I am sorry, do you want us to agree with you? isn???t going to happen..
Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/9/2006 1:49:37 PM :

Bulert wrote:
Oh, is it wrong to believe in something knowing what you have been given? I am sorry, do you want us to agree with you? isn???t going to happen..

 

Hey chickie I'm not the one writing in big bold letters here and I'm not the one compairing this to rapist and molestation. You guys are. I am a paralegal, I am aware of the laws in Canada and sorry that it is not against the law to have a abortion. If you don't like it don't have one.

WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 1:51:23 PM :
Cautiouslizard wrote:

Bulert wrote:
Oh, is it wrong to believe in something knowing what you have been given? I am sorry, do you want us to agree with you? isn???t going to happen..

 

Hey chickie I'm not the one writing in big bold letters here and I'm not the one compairing this to rapist and molestation. You guys are. I am a paralegal, I am aware of the laws in Canada and sorry that it is not against the law to have a abortion. If you don't like it don't have one.



CL, if you don't like our views, why are you posting on this thread?

Do you get a kick out of arguing without facts?
WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 1:49:44 PM :
Faulty wrote:
If we're going to do this, then. Dan, it does not matter what you say.  You'll never change your mind about anything, even if you're wrong. I have simply come to that conclusion based on anything I've seen you write/say. You're stuck in your ways. There's no point arguing with you.


Correct, Faulty... .I will NEVER change my mind on certain issues, such as homo-sex, abortion, etc etc.

I was once a fornicator and an all-around sinful person.

Then, I was converted from sin to Jesus Christ.

You're right; I wouldn't change my lifestyle as it is NOW for anything.


Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 1:52:07 PM :
I am sorry if you dont like my bold letters...i have trouble seeing what i am writing..and it helps? what a petty argument CL really
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 1:54:17 PM :
You???re a paralegal? That???s horrible!Your also petty, and that???s sad. Pick on my choice of writing..like I give a damn. Like it matters.
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 1:55:39 PM :
Its called you can repent???Have you heard of it? Or you rather ignore it? oh is this too bold for you? ha ha ha..too bad
Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/9/2006 1:58:08 PM :
How many times can one say he changed before you start wondering if it was ever even true?
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:00:04 PM :
Like you said..stats are crap..I know the truth..so all that copy and pasted info isnt going to get you anywhere..
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:02:48 PM :

Bulert wrote:
Like you said..stats are crap..I know the truth..so all that copy and pasted info isnt going to get you anywhere..

 

How is any of your data any more reputable than mine? I can find thousands of studies, polls and articles that support abortion. You can tell me I'm wrong thousands of times, but it doesn't mean I am.

Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:04:17 PM :
Those stats are crap. It is biologically proven a fetus is human..and  a baby..have you checked a science book? Does it feel pain=yes does it scream=yes..oh but its not human.!
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:05:36 PM :
My point was that some women pray to have babies and you agree in killing children that others would do anything to have. You knew damn well what i meant
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:06:20 PM :
He is an extremist? And you are another clone in this crappy society.
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:10:33 PM :

Bulert wrote:
He is an extremist? And you are another clone in this crappy society.

 

I'm a clone? How is that exactly.

Dan, look at your posts. You stereotype Muslims and homosexuals, you blindly support Israel, you fight for all things biblical 100%. You try to pass off COMPLETELY rediculous statistics as fact. If I tell you to look at both sides you ignore it and continue to fight your view on things. You refuse to believe anyone else MIGHT be right. You're an extremist.

Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:07:42 PM :

Bulert wrote:
Those stats are crap. It is biologically proven a fetus is human..and  a baby..have you checked a science book? Does it feel pain=yes does it scream=yes..oh but its not human.!

You do realize that the majority of abortions are done prior to 12 weeks right?

WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 2:08:47 PM :
Faulty, explain why I am an extremist.
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:10:52 PM :

Yes, I agree dan is an extremist. He is extremely moral, loyal, decent, and the kind of man any mother would love to see her daughter come home with after school.

Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:11:31 PM :
Bulert wrote:

Yes, I agree dan is an extremist. He is extremely moral, loyal, decent, and the kind of man any mother would love to see her daughter come home with after school.

 

That's a matter of opinion.

Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:13:34 PM :
Faulty wrote:
Bulert wrote:

Yes, I agree dan is an extremist. He is extremely moral, loyal, decent, and the kind of man any mother would love to see her daughter come home with after school.

 

That's a matter of opinion.

I bet you will never be able to bring anyone with such morals home to meet your parents..It is

a matter of truth

 

Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:17:04 PM :
Bulert wrote:
Faulty wrote:
Bulert wrote:

Yes, I agree dan is an extremist. He is extremely moral, loyal, decent, and the kind of man any mother would love to see her daughter come home with after school.

 

That's a matter of opinion.

I bet you will never be able to bring anyone with such morals home to meet your parents..It is

a matter of truth

 

 

Haha, you don't know me. You don't know my friends. You don't know any of the women I've been involved with. I'd be offended, but that is a rediculous statement.  Morality, loyalty, etc. exist in others who don't necessarily agree with you.

Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:12:26 PM :
Come on Faulty I am just as guilty, take a crack at me, you seen to be victimizing Dan, you don???t imtiminate me
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:14:55 PM :
It's not my point to intimidate anyone. I believe Dan has the right to say and fight for anything he believes in. However, I also have the right to tell him he's wrong and vice versa. I would fight viciously for any of your civil rights but I have no problem standing up and telling people the way I see it. Why is it you want me to take a crack at you exactly?
WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 2:16:17 PM :
Faulty wrote:
It's not my point to intimidate anyone. I believe Dan has the right to say and fight for anything he believes in. However, I also have the right to tell him he's wrong and vice versa. I would fight viciously for any of your civil rights but I have no problem standing up and telling people the way I see it. Why is it you want me to take a crack at you exactly?


I agree that Faulty does have that right.

We all have freedoms.
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:17:40 PM :
You are behond argumentative. Everytime there is a thread you get in there with almost hostility. Like with notme and the gays..he had his opinion and you never really let him. You are just as guilty at being stubborn as Dan faulty..your impossible to convince. Actually debating you makes my fingers very soreBig Smile [:D]
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:22:20 PM :

Bulert wrote:
You are behond argumentative. Everytime there is a thread you get in there with almost hostility. Like with notme and the gays..he had his opinion and you never really let him. You are just as guilty at being stubborn as Dan faulty..your impossible to convince. Actually debating you makes my fingers very soreBig Smile [:D]

 

Everytime? Blanket statements are a good way of making a fool of yourself. Have any of my posts so far in this seemed hostile? They've been typed as completely calm. The fact is, that whole thread about homosexuality wasn't a place for debate, that wasn't its intent. He came in with the intent to stir up ***. So he got it.

Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:24:08 PM :
He stated his opinion..he felt strongly about it..and i am sure he still does
Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/9/2006 2:26:09 PM :
Hey chickie I'm almost sure that it's in your postings that I have seen comments that faulty is a clone just because and that it is horrible for me to be a paralegal. We are arguing abortion but not making you feel like sh*t because you don't agree with.
WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 2:13:55 PM :
Faulty....

I was a hypocrite for YEARS, pretending to be a moral person, yet living in sin.

I fornicated, drank, etc etc ALL WHILE CLAIMING TO BE A CHRISTIAN.

I was then converted, not only from sin and evil, but from being a FAKE.

The views I hold are a result of the Biblical truth that Jesus Christ can change a life from being a FAKE Christian to a real one.

I believe what I believe because Scripture teaches it.

And if anyone disagrees, do you see me trying to tell them to remain quiet?

Not once.
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:15:34 PM :
God is taken completely from the world. Nothing we do has anything to do with god, and that includes abortion, and it includes fornication. Faulty your belief???s are as all others..CLONES..thats a point i wont back down from
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:19:47 PM :
I could also call you a clone Jenn. One of the other 2.1 billion Christians on this earth. A religion that has arguably stifled free-thinking for thousands of years and even held us back in science and human-rights.
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:23:21 PM :
We have so many people go through life believing in nothing, have no real hope or closure for after death. Religion had held people back from science, I do agree in some places, I am not an obsessive Christina who was like 100 crosses on my walls..It isn???t that extreme. I just have something to believe in. I do take science seriously, and when it comes to science VS bible I am open minded. I do agree that It has held some things back
WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 2:24:57 PM :
Bulert wrote:
We have so many people go through life believing in nothing, have no real hope or closure for after death. Religion had held people back from science, I do agree in some places, I am not an obsessive Christina who was like 100 crosses on my walls..It isn???t that extreme. I just have something to believe in. I do take science seriously, and when it comes to science VS bible I am open minded. I do agree that It has held some things back


Science and the Bible agree 100%

http://www.answersingenesis.org
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:26:43 PM :
How many links do you keep stashed?
WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 2:27:46 PM :
Bulert wrote:
How many links do you keep stashed?


Ken Ham (that link) is a scientist....and a Christian :)
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:33:33 PM :

 Well you are both intitled to your opinions, and i respect you as people, especially faulty. He is an intelligent guy, and he makes a good argument. Anyway, i am through with this thread Because this is one subject that never gets anywhere. It is one of the most controversial topics ever, and I think it is a little pointless to argue over something some of us will never have to deal with..So, I am moving on to another thread.

I respect you CL because I know you have kids, and you still have the opinion you have. Thanks for the discussion

 Bye

Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/9/2006 2:36:39 PM :
Later chickie have a good one
WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 2:38:02 PM :
Let's end the thread with this:

Abortion is murder

Abortion is murder

Abortion is murder

Abortion is murder

Abortion is murder

Abortion is murder

Abortion is murder

Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:40:16 PM :

Nope

Nope

Nope

Nope

Nope

Nope

Nope

WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 2:41:30 PM :
Faulty wrote:

Nope

Nope

Nope

Nope

Nope

Nope

Nope



I love you
I love you
I love you
I love you
I love you
I love you
I love you
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:43:58 PM :

I love you too   
I love you too
I love you too
I love you too
I love you too
I love you too
I love you too

Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:37:08 PM :
I enjoy the fact that you respect me as a person but I have no chance of being with someone who is loyal or decent.
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:40:20 PM :

Faulty..i was being a bitch, one of my great characteristics. You are a great guy and probably an amazing judge of character. I am a teen girl, the bitchiness comes with the package, like extra luggage. Still think your great though

 

And CL, I am glad your here, your a lot of fun, I just hope we will talk sometime soon and agree!
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:41:08 PM :
Bulert wrote:

Faulty..i was being a bitch, one of my great characteristics. You are a great guy and probably an amazing judge of character. I am a teen girl, the bitchiness comes with the package, like extra luggage. Still think your great though

 

And CL, I am glad your here, your a lot of fun, I just hope we will talk sometime soon and agree!

 

I wasn't that worried about it.

Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:42:18 PM :
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:43:34 PM :

I love pickles

i love pickles

i love pickles

i love pickles

ilove pickles??

Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:44:01 PM :
Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/9/2006 2:47:29 PM :
Bulert wrote:

Faulty..i was being a bitch, one of my great characteristics. You are a great guy and probably an amazing judge of character. I am a teen girl, the bitchiness comes with the package, like extra luggage. Still think your great though

 

And CL, I am glad your here, your a lot of fun, I just hope we will talk sometime soon and agree!

Ah and I didn't forget you Bulert. You ROCK the most you are very inteligent and yes we will meet again bye bye

Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/9/2006 2:41:40 PM :

Faulty wrote:
I enjoy the fact that you respect me as a person but I have no chance of being with someone who is loyal or decent.

Lol now that's funny. I think your a great guy but I don't know you to judge that on I only know of you from what you write lol But your pretty awesome stuff up until now lol, just like Dan is awesome when not arguing something lol. (wouldn't want to be his wife haha) sorry joking. But you guys rock cause your not scared of stating you opinions.

P.S. Dan I sure hope you change alot of minds about abortion cause yes I agree the child should get a chance.

WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 2:44:11 PM :
Cautiouslizard wrote:

Faulty wrote:
I enjoy the fact that you respect me as a person but I have no chance of being with someone who is loyal or decent.

Lol now that's funny. I think your a great guy but I don't know you to judge that on I only know of you from what you write lol But your pretty awesome stuff up until now lol, just like Dan is awesome when not arguing something lol. (wouldn't want to be his wife haha) sorry joking. But you guys rock cause your not scared of stating you opinions.

P.S. Dan I sure hope you change alot of minds about abortion cause yes I agree the child should get a chance.



You see, CL, this place is soooooooooo not for personal attacks, by you or by ME.

I think debate is good.

I also think we should always stay on topic rathe rthan get personal.

You, me, faulty, bulert, joe-blow.

It's all about discussion.

Never attack.
WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 2:44:44 PM :
WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 2:45:30 PM :
My brain is a mess

My brain is a mess

My brain is a mess

My brain is a mess

My brain is a mess

My brain is a mess

My brain is a mess
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:44:54 PM :
I am the backbone of the opposition :D
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:45:16 PM :
YOUR SUCH AN EXTREMIST! lol..this was kind of fun..i know that sounds twisted..
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:48:51 PM :
I'm extremely sexy if that's what you mean.
WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 2:54:06 PM :
Faulty wrote:
I'm extremely sexy if that's what you mean.


So you're an extremist also?
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:59:02 PM :
extremely
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 3:09:15 PM :
You know, thats exactly what i meant faultyStick out tongue [:P]
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:28:01 PM :

WWJD wrote:
Bulert wrote:
We have so many people go through life believing in nothing, have no real hope or closure for after death. Religion had held people back from science, I do agree in some places, I am not an obsessive Christina who was like 100 crosses on my walls..It isn???t that extreme. I just have something to believe in. I do take science seriously, and when it comes to science VS bible I am open minded. I do agree that It has held some things back


Science and the Bible agree 100%

http://www.answersingenesis.org

 

I'm sure any serious scientiest would rip this passage apart

As you add up all of the dates, and accepting that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came to Earth almost 2000 years ago, we come to the conclusion that the creation of the Earth and animals (including the dinosaurs) occurred only thousands of years ago (perhaps only 6000!), not millions of years. Thus, if the Bible is right (and it is!), dinosaurs must have lived within the past thousands of years.

 

Science and the bible do not agree 100%. However it's a nice thought :) Oh, that's from your link. The idea of "young earth creationists" has been COMPLETELY destroyed by dating techniques and even simple logical argument. Is it possible that the bible is right and science is right as well? I'm sure it is, however the two views right now clash , mostly because people tend to believe 100% either way. Maybe once we pick out some more of the missing pieces we'll really understand what went on with the earth.

WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 2:32:30 PM :
Eye witness accounts by many people of creatures that are exactly like dinosaurs in appearance. The descriptions include not only sightings, but people actually hunting and killing them are being killed by them. These stories have been documented all over the world in many different cultures. They exist in the writings of several well-known ancient people, and have been documented by scientists as recently as a few years ago.  Some of the best information along these lines come from evolutionists in their book titled "A Living Dinosaur?". 

Art work and various ancient artifacts depicting live dinosaurs by themselves, or interacting with humans. These include burial stones, burial cloths, clay figurines, cave drawings, etc.

Fossilized footprints of humans and dinosaurs together. While some of these particular discoveries may be questionable, others appear to be far more reliable.


Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:35:58 PM :
Of ancient people. Does this guy state what he considered ancient? Also, look at the URL of that link. Don't think they have an agenda? If you want to merge the two sides together you can't ignore generally accepted science such as the dating techniques and geology that use to date some of these things. (Grand Canyon)
Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/9/2006 2:14:25 PM :
Have you ever met this guy or just read his posts?
Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/9/2006 2:04:24 PM :

If all teh stats are crap, how do you know the truth.

p.s. Why is it horrible that I'm a paralegal?

WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 2:05:47 PM :
Cautiouslizard wrote:

If all teh stats are crap, how do you know the truth.

p.s. Why is it horrible that I'm a paralegal?



To be fair, paralegals helped me.

We need them.

As for abortion... well, you know the deal.

Abortion... bad.

Paralegal...good.
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:01:05 PM :
In my experience it's quite often that people will usually go from one extreme to another. An extreme in any sense is not a healthy lifestyle.
WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 2:01:52 PM :
Faulty wrote:
In my experience it's quite often that people will usually go from one extreme to another. An extreme in any sense is not a healthy lifestyle.


I agree with this statement.

However, how is pro-life extreme?
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:02:49 PM :
Do you mean going from a sinner to a saved person? Explain that statement
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:04:59 PM :

WWJD wrote:
Faulty wrote:
In my experience it's quite often that people will usually go from one extreme to another. An extreme in any sense is not a healthy lifestyle.


I agree with this statement.

However, how is pro-life extreme?

I never said pro-life was extreme. You however are an extremist.

WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 2:06:21 PM :
Explain why.
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:08:34 PM :
Because with the way you speak and the way your acting, are you sure you???re a paralegal? I mean, a paralegal just takes cases lawyers don???t want..like secretaries. Hmm..my aunts a lawyer..hmm
Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 2:01:34 PM :
My mother lost her baby at 42 weeks. Now, she would have done ANYTHING to keep that little girl alive and you agree with abortion? SICK
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:03:27 PM :

Bulert wrote:
My mother lost her baby at 42 weeks. Now, she would have done ANYTHING to keep that little girl alive and you agree with abortion? SICK

 

Did someone hold her down and abort the baby? No? Then that argument makes no sense.

WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 2:04:05 PM :
Faulty wrote:

Bulert wrote:
My mother lost her baby at 42 weeks. Now, she would have done ANYTHING to keep that little girl alive and you agree with abortion? SICK

 

Did someone hold her down and abort the baby? No? Then that argument makes no sense.



The fact is that there are moms who would THEMSELVES die fo rthat aborted baby...to have it.

is that bad?
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 2:06:09 PM :
WWJD wrote:
Faulty wrote:

Bulert wrote:
My mother lost her baby at 42 weeks. Now, she would have done ANYTHING to keep that little girl alive and you agree with abortion? SICK

 

Did someone hold her down and abort the baby? No? Then that argument makes no sense.



The fact is that there are moms who would THEMSELVES die fo rthat aborted baby...to have it.

is that bad?

Nope, some mothers would definitely rather give their own lives, or at least risk their own to give their child the opportunity to live theirs. However some would not.

Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/9/2006 1:52:48 PM :

WWJD wrote:
Faulty wrote:
If we're going to do this, then. Dan, it does not matter what you say.  You'll never change your mind about anything, even if you're wrong. I have simply come to that conclusion based on anything I've seen you write/say. You're stuck in your ways. There's no point arguing with you.


Correct, Faulty... .I will NEVER change my mind on certain issues, such as homo-sex, abortion, etc etc.

I was once a fornicator and an all-around sinful person.

Then, I was converted from sin to Jesus Christ.

You're right; I wouldn't change my lifestyle as it is NOW for anything.


That's what you told me the first few times we met and you still sinned. what's so different now about you?

 

Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 1:43:47 PM :

Dan correction 12% of the general population think having sex with a 10-13 year old is okay. See, I have to take this thing called Personal Development. It???s a joke, but the stas we are given are from Canada.

 

Abortion was our topic for speech and Debate. 30 kids in the class..12 per pro choice.. WAIT 12? So..18 kids are PRO-LIFE? That cant be true..We are the majority, and pro-life is a majority through Canada. BUT IT IS LEGAL?! Because CL you know because its legal it must be right? PFFTT!! NOPE

 

 me you and dan go to a party, we eat meat, you don???t okay? But of course we cater to you because you???re the minority and we don???t want to offend you? Same thing..stupid society???ruining the future of humanity

Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/9/2006 1:47:12 PM :

Dan move on I'm getting annoyed with your obsured statements about rapist and pedophiles. It has nothing to do with that it has to do with something that is legal and that's it you can't compair it to those things. You want to think they way you do by all means go for it. I'm tired of hearing the same claims and seeing the same links that are made to benefit the group that made them. Move on. If you believe everything you read, hear and see good luck in life baby.

Bulert wrote on 8/9/2006 1:48:44 PM :
And if you believe everything your doctor tells you, wake up hun. He us proving just because it is legal doesn???t make it right. He doesn???t have to stop, and if your annoyed then you move on. Plain and simple. He is proving a point through the pedofelia..its annoying?..you???re a minority.And you are annoying me with no factual agruments
Faulty wrote on 8/9/2006 1:56:38 PM :

Oh really?

 

If a woman has sex, she has to pay the consequences. Too many women have abortions for their own convenience or on "whim."

This vindictive, self-righteous attitude stems from a belief that sex is bad and must be punished. Motherhood should never be punishment for having sex. Forcing a child to be born to punish its mother is the ultimate in child abuse. Anti-abortionists trivialize motherhood and childbirth by dismissing pregnancy as a mere inconvenience. They ignore or belittle the needs of the woman and the conflict she endures in making her decision. Guilt is inflicted when compassion is needed.

Most Canadians believe that abortion should be illegal. The majority rules in a democracy.

About 78% of Canadians believe that abortion is a private matter between a woman and her doctor. Human rights are guaranteed for everyone and are not subject to the whim of the electorate. Even if only a minority believed in freedom of choice, that right should be protected from the tyranny of the majority.

 

Abortion is dangerous and medically risky. It is not as safe as natural pregnancy. Abortion increases the risk of miscarriage in future pregnancies, and infertility.

The risk of dying from childbirth is about 13 times that for early abortion, and the overall abortion complication rate is extremely low, about 25 times lower than for childbirth. First-trimester abortion has become one of the safest and simplest medical procedures of all, one that can be quickly and routinely performed even by nurses as well as doctors. Having an abortion will not adversely affect a woman's future reproduction. Legalized abortion has had a positive impact on the health of American women by providing them with a safer way to terminate their pregnancies.

 

Abortion is the murder of a person.

Personhood at conception is a religious belief, not a provable biological fact.

Religious communities have differing ideas on the definition of "person" or when abortion is morally justified. In the Canadian courts, however, a fetus has consistently been found not to be a person with legal rights.

 

http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/abortioninfo/misconce.shtml

YAY propaganda!! BOTH SIDES CAN SKEW DATA YAY!!

WWJD wrote on 8/9/2006 1:52:44 PM :
Cautiouslizard wrote:

Dan move on I'm getting annoyed with your obsured statements about rapist and pedophiles. It has nothing to do with that it has to do with something that is legal and that's it you can't compair it to those things. You want to think they way you do by all means go for it. I'm tired of hearing the same claims and seeing the same links that are made to benefit the group that made them. Move on. If you believe everything you read, hear and see good luck in life baby.



We have a problem then, CL... I don't care if you're getting annoyed.

I started the thread.

YOU move on, CL.

I don't tell you what post, so by ALL MEANS keep your rude little comments to yourself and allow others to say what they want as we allow YOU to.




notme wrote on 8/7/2006 8:18:27 PM :
 people only care for what is best for them they do not care if it kills another human  .......
 
 
morality is non existant in this day and age
 
 
on the long run we will be punish for these things
BlinkeredKitten wrote on 8/7/2006 9:44:19 PM :

WWJD, how could you post this??? You know it's breaking hearts!!

As a mom of 4 beautiful children - despite the mental & physical challenges involved - and also a mom who has lived through miscarriages, I find this so hard to stomach! How can people not only waste human life, but be so downright cruel about it??!!

I hope I get to hold every one of these precious babies in Heaven! I'm sure that the angels have reserved a special corner for these little souls!

WWJD wrote on 8/7/2006 9:55:01 PM :
Blinkered, have you seen the anti-abortion film I created?

The REASON I post this stuff is BECAUSE it needs to be seen and heard.

If we don't give them a voice...who will?

Click Here





GlassHalfFull wrote on 8/7/2006 10:37:57 PM :

What about people who get pregnant through rape/incest or some other horrible action. Should abotion be used in those circumstances?

I am actually agaist abortion, just want to hear what other people think.

WWJD wrote on 8/7/2006 10:54:43 PM :
GlassHalfFull wrote:

What about people who get pregnant through rape/incest or some other horrible action. Should abotion be used in those circumstances?

I am actually agaist abortion, just want to hear what other people think.



Your question is that of one who promotes what si known as "situational ethics"...


Bulert wrote on 8/8/2006 8:50:48 AM :
In the case of rape or incest, the amount of children conceived during these events is extremely low. There is NEVER a need to punish and innocent life, for the sins of another person. There is Adoptions, for the women who do not want them. There are hundreds and thousands of people who want to have a baby to love and call their own, and you suck the limbs from yours and watch it scream. Incest babies can come deformed, depending on how close the relative is. HOWEVER, is a child with a mental problem worth less than a normal child? Of course not. This baby is a part of you. This baby has a chance to be something great. What is Frederick Banting???s mother decided to have an abortion? All of you diabetics would be dead! Nelson Mandela? These people helped thousands, and so could a child we sentence to death for no real reason. Abortion is WRONG. No ??? pro-life??? or ??? pro-choice??? I am ??? pro opportunity??? give them a chance! You don???t want them? Give him/her away. Have you any idea of the pain and torment you inflict on these helpless people. Please, murder is wrong, and it IS murder. If you are ??? pro-choice??? you are a murderer! Plain and simple. And if a women will die without an abortion, then put it in gods hands. A life unlived is worth more than a life with experience.
WWJD wrote on 8/8/2006 8:59:47 AM :
Correct Bulert! :-)

The stat is 0.05 %

Not 5%

0.05%

Gotta love when people say "What about rape/incest?"

It's virtually non existant; and when it does happen... we murder the child?

I think not.

We punish the OFFENDER, not the baby!


willie c wuddle wrote on 8/8/2006 9:07:14 AM :
I'm cooking some abortions right now. They're called eggs.
Bulert wrote on 8/8/2006 9:19:08 AM :
Eww i hate eggs
willie c wuddle wrote on 8/8/2006 9:21:46 AM :
I have to lose a few pounds fast so it's eggs, salad, and ice water for me instead of steak and beer.
Bulert wrote on 8/8/2006 9:29:02 AM :

Ha ha willie'es on a diet

willie c wuddle wrote on 8/8/2006 9:56:06 AM :
That nice big juicy T-bone steak from Thursday night is just a fond memory. The reality of  salad and eggs will be tough today.
Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/8/2006 10:33:44 AM :

WWJD wrote:
Correct Bulert! :-)

The stat is 0.05 %

Not 5%

0.05%

Gotta love when people say "What about rape/incest?"

It's virtually non existant; and when it does happen... we murder the child?

I think not.

We punish the OFFENDER, not the baby!


And how many people are there on this earth? Only 100? 0.05% looks small but in reality it's not that small when you consider the bigger number than per 100.

WWJD wrote on 8/8/2006 11:09:11 AM :
So, CL, you're suggesting that we murder babies and let the murderER go free?

I don't care of it's 1 or 1 million.

Taking a life is wrong.

Period.

You're using situational ethics...that means you will do what you think is right depending on HOW the baby was conceived.

Abortion is murder...whether it's done because of rape or otherwise.

Murder is murder, reagrdless of the situation.

I don't change my views when the situation changes.

Sure, I can;t say that I know the plight of the female having to decide on this issue; I can, however, give a voice to the BABY...and the voice says:

MURDER.
Faulty wrote on 8/8/2006 11:10:44 AM :
Do you eat steak?
WWJD wrote on 8/8/2006 11:11:15 AM :
Faulty wrote:
Do you eat steak?


Vegetarian.

For real.
Faulty wrote on 8/8/2006 11:23:19 AM :
I saw you eat a hamburger on video. Liar.
Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/8/2006 12:03:41 PM :

WWJD wrote:
So, CL, you're suggesting that we murder babies and let the murderER go free?

I don't care of it's 1 or 1 million.

Taking a life is wrong.

Period.

You're using situational ethics...that means you will do what you think is right depending on HOW the baby was conceived.

Abortion is murder...whether it's done because of rape or otherwise.

Murder is murder, reagrdless of the situation.

I don't change my views when the situation changes.

Sure, I can;t say that I know the plight of the female having to decide on this issue; I can, however, give a voice to the BABY...and the voice says:

MURDER.

 

Putting 0.05% looks much better and seems like there is very few women if you use that number. Put real numbers in and you'll see it happens more often that one would think. How would you have liked if your mom would have been a junky and you have extrem medical issues. As I sated in another post I know a guy (my cousin to be more precise) that has told me many many times that he wished his mom would have had a abortion so he wouldn't have to go through everything he's been through. You can't judge a person's they're decision until you walk in their shoes.

WWJD wrote on 8/8/2006 12:15:27 PM :
The fact that there are :junie moms" make syou support the killing of the BABY?

As for "real numbers"... I gave the statstistical number.

you have ZILCH.

So, it's YOU who should give "real numbers".

I gave mine.

You have opinion backed with only "what if's".

There are no "what if's" when it comes to the murder of a baby.

You don;t make a baby suffer for the MOTHER'S drug problems.

Those babies can and HAVE been weaned off drugs by doctors and nurses who CARE....

I'd rather see a baby come off drugs, etc etc than to see a mother take it's life.

And oh...

One of my best friends has two children.

Their two children suffer from a type of Reflux that is very dangerous... they have been in the hospital more times than you can count.

They "could have" aborted the babies due to the "medical problems".

However... there's a difference between this family and the types you're talking about:

My friend is a great father.

The types you're talking about aren't great parents; you can't BE a great parent when you "choose" to "abort" (kill) your child.

Where do you get your information from, CL?

It's certainly pretty disturbing, to say the least.

WWJD wrote on 8/8/2006 12:20:08 PM :
PS: It seems, CL, that we've been through this issue on the other thread.

Hopefully, if you stay on this thread, which I personally started, you'll be kind enough to give facts backed with more facts.

The issue needs INFORMATION, not things like, "My doctor told me so I believe it."...blah blah blah

If you don;t WANT to present the facts, why are you on this thread?

To argue fo rthe sake of arguing?

You're in for a long hard ride if that's the road you wanna take on this thread.

Give facts on why abortion is NOT taking the life of an innocent baby....otherwise, you're wasting a good thread on "what if's" and your personal opinions, which have no basis in facts.
Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/8/2006 12:24:42 PM :
I'm not to sure that you fully read the posts cause as I stated my cousin (which his mom was and still is a junky) has told me many times over and over and I mean this guy is over 30 years old and still says it to this day that he doesn't undertsand why his mom gave birth to him. It's not all the babies but you can not condem a person for making that kind of decision untill you walk in their shoes. This came from teh mouth of a junky's baby. It is aweful to watch him go trough life, he hates it but can not commit suicide due to his condition and has no one that is willing to help him commit the crime. Now you explain to me how his life is better for him to be the way he is. That it is normal for someone to want to commit suicide but can't due to his medical condition.
WWJD wrote on 8/8/2006 12:27:57 PM :
CL Said: he hates it but can not commit suicide due to his condition and has no one that is willing to help him commit the crime

You have jkust here stated that (1) suicide is NOT anything less than a crime and (2) that it's ok for someone to kill him/help him die.

This, again, is called "situational ethics" and I reject it outright.

Also, this thread is on abortion.

Please present facts on ABORTION.

Thanks.


Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/8/2006 12:40:24 PM :
That comes from a guy that has personnaly been affect by HIS mom NOT getting a abortion.
Cautiouslizard wrote on 8/8/2006 12:50:30 PM :
I am not saying that I would do it myself because I wouldn't not be able to live with