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The Real Reasons Straight People Can’t Accept Gay People

Last post 04-05-2008, 8:21 PM by zymry. 123 replies.
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  •  04-01-2008, 6:22 PM

    The Real Reasons Straight People Can’t Accept Gay People

    http://epistle.us/articles/straightamerica.html

    The Real Reason Straight Americans Can’t Accept Gay Americans

    As gay people, most of us have had to deal with the unrelenting hatred, prejudice and fear by some homophobic heterosexual Americans who can’t accept homosexual Americans.

    Please note, that I am not talking about ALL straight Americans, just those who do their darndest to make our lives miserable.

    Many people quote the Bible as their reason for gay bias, denying us respect, acceptance and basic human rights, going against what America AND Jesus Christ is all about. But the funny thing is, I believe that the reason they cannot accept us is because of a very primitive, childish and emotional reaction that has nothing to do with the Bible.

    On really a basic, primal level, homophobic heterosexual men can’t accept gay men because we are not like them. And the root of the issue is the childhood ridicule and scorn taught by society against any perceived weakness and femininity.

    What is really behind the arrogant, self-righteous, smug, mouth foaming, and red eyed craziness against gay people and gay men in particular?

    It all starts in the 1st grade.

    Boys learn to make fun of each other at an early age. Young boys also teach each other that they are better than girls, so anything feminine is not as good as anything masculine. This they all learn from observing adults, media, sports and action heroes. Various and subtle degrees of misogyny abound in America, encouraged and accepted by men and women.

    The root is really anti-feminist…anything to do with females. Men are strong, women are weak. Men are leaders, women are followers. Men have intellectual discourse, women just gossip. Men are aggressive, women are passive.

    But what about passive men and aggressive women?

    This is also why men insult each other with female references. And we've all heard that coaches and drill sargeants humiliate their members by calling them "Girls", "Ladies" and "Pussies"; emasculating them to make them weaker and easier to control while making themselves appear stronger. Of course, "Faggots" is the next term stepped up.

    Even gay men use words like "Girlfriend", "Princess" or "Queen" when talking about each other.

    Boys learn to get at each other by making accusations that another boy is “like a girl”…and since “girls kiss boys” then to be gay is to be “a boy who kisses another boy”. Yechhh! The ultimate put down and threat to any boy’s identity, masculinity and social standing. Young boys are running scared that someone will find a reason to make them an outcast, and if they are branded gay, the entire school will turn against them and make their lives miserable with taunts and name calling. And we all know how boys love finding and picking on other kids. It's fun and funny and makes boys look tough, and no one is going to pick on you if you're the one doing the picking on. So each boy starts their own long campaign, whether consciously or subconsciously, to go against anything that might make them look weak…and this carries over into how they talk, what they wear, what sport they play, and eventually to what they believe, who they vote for, and how they treat people including their own families.

    From the start, American boys are taught to fear this type of ridicule. No boy wants to be perceived as weak. So the fear of not being masculine enough is smashed over each boy’s head, (reinforced by every family member, adult, and peer). Any sign of femininity is a blaring siren that this boy is a“sissy ”.

    And the most important element to note...is that boys and men teach each other in their personal interactions with jokes, remarks, accusations and hostility...that being gay is repulsive and something to be ashamed of.

    This is where it all comes from: Each other.

    So begins the “masculinization” of every American boy. That boy now has to learn the ways of manhood. Not REAL manhood…but doing things to appear “manly”. Things that Americans have decided are manly: aggression, pride, arrogance, intolerance, cursing, competing, fighting, fag bashing, chasing women, toughness, excess, revenge, wildness, stubborness, never looking weak, having an answer for everything, always being right and never admitting you're wrong, etc.

    (This is also why the world would be a better place if it was run by women! Men are way too emotional!)

    This is true for all manner of American groups containing men, whether in sport teams, gangs, unions, companies, law firms, fraternities, colleges...men are expected to behave like REAL men.

    But some men say, "Hey, it's testosterone man, testosterone...I can't help it, I was born this way!" Hey, and that's fine with me...but then why will you refuse to believe us when we say we were born gay?

    Christian men are different...churches attempt to teach their men to live more like Christ: more gentle, more honest, with more integrity and an emphasis on leadership. But machismo still exists and sneaks into the "Christian Man". So, we get loud aggressive Christian leaders who think they know everything, and who act like they're God's right hand man. (Humbleness is one of those traits that is somehow overlooked, because it is a sign of weakness.)

    But society still believes that boys will be boys. Anything boys do...is charming.

    "Boys who love boys are gay"... so the average boy in America learns they can’t get TOO CLOSE to other boys. Boys can only love girls. Men cannot show or have affection with each other. Straight male society can only relate to each other through straight approved activities and since real men can't love other men, then they have to fight, compete, kill and conquer...even while playing together. Even if the game is intellectual like chess or video games...there is still violence without the violence...someone has to win...because losers are weak. Passive. Feminine. Pussy. Pansy. Gay.

    Women can make close friendships with other women, but straight men CAN'T get too close to other straight men.
    There are a lot of lonely straight men out there. Because to get close to another man is well…being gay! So independence and self-reliance is better than depending on another man, because there is always that competition and fear of looking weak. It is easier to keep up the facade when no one knows you too well. And when men get together they talk about girls, sex, sports, cars, gadgets, tools, the stock market, politics, facts and figures...etc.
    Men are always trying to impress each other...boasting about their accomplishments and achievements to appear stronger, smarter, tougher, richer and better...to each other.  Notice that I said "appear".

    But for two men to share their feelings, struggles, failures or sadness with each other…is well…way too gay...a sign of feminine weakness.

    Some Christian men HAVEN'T gotten wind that in the Bible, David and Jonathan cried in each others arms, kissing each other because they had to separate. (1 Samuel 20:41) And yes, I'm talking about King David, who was chosen by God to rule His people. Hmmm.

    I have heard there are a few Bible translators who just can't deal with this scenario of affection between the two men. The Living Bible in 1971, translated that David and Jonathan "sadly shook hands, tears running down their cheeks". SHOOK HANDS? Are you kidding me? And the new version: "Both of them were in tears as they embraced each other and said good-bye" - New Living Translation. 1996, leaving out the kissing altogether! Or yet another, "And then they kissed one another and wept, friend over friend" - The Message. 1993. Let's make it VERY clear, shall we?

    For straight men to show love, affection, appreciation, admiration, friendliness, concern or care...is to be feminine…to be avoided because, “REAL MEN DON’T DO THAT”. The fear of being branded gay is so strong, that men will do and say anything to prove they are not “feminine” which includes having prejudice against a man who is perceived feminine. They beat us up so they can look butch! No girly man here.

    But of course, for straight men...touching, cuddling and engaging in sex with another male is disgusting to them. That is REALLY the BIG reason. Hey, no problem, dude. I get it. I ain't forcing you to do anything. It's a free country! But just because I'm not interested in heterosexual sex doesn't mean I want to eradicate heterosexuals from existence. I acknowledge that people are different, and because of Jesus Christ, have the right to live and worship God happily...even if I'm NOT like them.

    Many American men today are hyper-masculine. They work, fight, play, succeed, drink...to excess…to belong to that class of manly Americans. Power suits, power meetings, power lifts, power drinks, power lunches, power drills, power steering... It’s a bird, it’s a plane, It’s Superman!

    In Europe, many straight men can cook. It is a great thing to be able to welcome people and prepare a meal that everyone loves. But in America, cooking is a woman’s job. (Except for outdoor grilling which, because of fire and raw meat, conjours up images of cavemen. "Move over ladies...this is a man's job.")

    Real men, just sit there and eat. They don’t even help clean up the dishes because it's woman’s work. But what really is happening is, they are ruled by their fear of looking weak, so somehow even the act of NOT doing the dishes, is a message to all, "I AM A MAN... I DON'T DO DISHES!" Men are kings, waited on by their servants…their mothers, wives, girlfriends and daughters.

    There is a subliminal and subtle prejudice of anything feminine.
    Of course the hatred for transgender folks is even worse. Men who appear as women are looked on with laughter and ridicule, yet women who look like men are not even noticed. Women with short hair, flat shoes, slacks...are practical. Less feminine is good, more masculine is better.

    They believe that all gay men are effeminate, that is why they are surprised when they find out that someone they know is gay, because in their minds..."he doesn't act gay". Act gay? What does that mean? Does every straight man act like a WWF Wrestler? No. They don't realize that most gay men are just like them with no affectations, no lisps, and no swinging hips.

    They just can't stand the idea of a feminine man.

    These same insecure boys grow up to become lawyers, politicians, preachers and ministers and use their power unapologetically to attack us and get other people to attack us. It's the good ole boy behavior, the boy’s club that keeps alive gay prejudice. Besides, it confirms to their wives, girlfriends, buddies, and co-workers that, "I'm not gay! I'm so NOT gay that I will make laws to make gays miserable."

    They work in high places to take away basic human rights from us GLBT people. The ultimate male control...to make laws against us to keep us in line. It’s easy to bash a minority that no one supports. Gay jokes get guaranteed laughs and make you the hit of the party. And of course to sympathize with gay people might mean YOU are really GAY…so best to shut up.

    Childish, immature, unjust, uncivilized and barbaric, but “who cares, as long as I look straight!"

    And why are so many Americans so smug about their arrogance towards GLBT bias? Because they have people who agree with them. A mob. A mob who pats them on the back for throwing rocks at us, laughing all the way. America is ruled by the "herd mentality". If you don't think like us, then you must be one of them!

    And what about some American heterosexual women?

    Well some homophobic women may not accept gay men for another reason. We are not available to them. How many times have women learned that a man they were attracted to was gay, only to retort from their bruised egos, “What a waste!”

    And I once heard a woman who encountered a group of gay men, say in astonishment…“I felt invisible. No one paid any attention to me!” She was prejudiced because she was sexually ignored!

    But most homophobic women can't accept gay people because of the same reason that straight homophobic men can't accept gay people; because we are not like them and do not participate in their same games and rituals. And since we don't do the things that they do, they can't understand us...we are different. We are aliens. We are against nature.

    But why would some women object?

    Women may like that men are more feminine: kinder, gentler, more understanding... at the same time, they perceive feminine men to be weak. And it is one thing to be friends with a feminine man and another thing to marry a feminine man.

    Again the perception is weakness. They want their man STRONG. And if anyone is going to be feminine, it will be them, not other men. Some people want their boundaries well defined and gay men and women blur that line.

    But there are exceptions of many women who ARE accepting of gay men because many of us think more like them. They can relate and talk to us, while many women can't talk to their own husbands or boyfriends because for men, talking about feelings is well...too sensitive and too feminine.

    For awhile there, it was great that girls were like guys. Tomboys were fun and just like one of the guys. But now that America has gotten wind that some women who dress and act like guys might be lesbian…"Well that’s different".

    Some straight men have sexual fantasies about lipstick lesbians…so why is there no problem there? But then again, is it perhaps that lesbians are not interested in straight men? Or because they find that some lesbians are better at doing things than they are? There are some lesbians who can not only fix a sink, but win a kickboxing tournament.

    And of course, heterosexual couples are against gay people because well, if they have a child who might be gay, they won’t have grandchildren, depriving them of their fantasy family life as well as bringing shame to them and their good name. Having a gay child is an embarrassment.

    So because it doesn’t work to their advantage, we are despised. We are harassed and denied rights because there are NO BENEFITS for them. They don't have any reason to support us because basically, they don't get anything in return. Why bother with gay people. "What's in it for me?" That is why they won't condone the "gay lifestyle". (As if we need their approval to be ourselves.) And because we do not physically participate in the heterosexual way to make a family...they accuse us of being AGAINST the family! Ridiculous.

    And to have a gay child is the ultimate humiliation for them. The parents of the gay child go into their own closet because they will lose their place in their club. “What will the neighbors think?” Of course the father blames the mother because their child is gay, she must have feminized the child. “It's your fault that he's a mama's boy!” Or the father blames himself for a gay son..."I should have played more ball with him when he was young." (Like playing ball makes a child straight?)

    We are an embarrassment to our self-centered parents. And some parents kick their own child out of the family, because we make them look bad. "No child of mine, could be gay!"

    So, why do homophobic Americans hate us? Because they selfishly are protecting their own interests and that involves destroying ours. Because we are not like them, they dismiss our lives, doing everything they can to keep us out of their schools, neighborhoods, work places and churches, making rules, regulations and laws to make sure we stay out.

    Much of it is based on fear, that if we gay people have our way, we will somehow take over, and surround them, and there will no longer be a straight world! Well calm down, there is and will always be plenty of straight people to keep the world going. No one is trying to take anything away from you. We respect straight society, straight marriage and the biological family. But we just want to be included, respected and allowed to live peacefully and with integrity, without the fear of being gawked at, judged, bashed and denied our humanity...continously.

    The same prejudice used against Blacks and Jews and other minorities...is still alive in us GLBT people. Americans have progressed some in civil rights…but are we really that far ahead or just more clever in how we hide our prejudices?

    Of course homophobic Christians deny that it has anything to do with that. They shout that homosexuality is against God, against the Bible, it is not natural, yada, yada.

    "The Bible is CLEAR...homosexuality is a SIN!"

    Well, I say..."The Bible is VERY CLEAR...“Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get."- Matthew 7:1-2

    Whatever their reasoning...they are practicing prejudice, stereotyping, bias and bashing, which is something Jesus Christ (in the Bible) taught against! They can't seem to see that they're breaking Jesus' basic teachings by judging us, looking down on us, making us outcasts and ganging up against us just as the Pharisees treated people they viewed as "sinners." These Christians all say they are following Jesus, but they conveniently forget that Jesus welcomed all these outcasts without reservations.  Jesus spent not His ministry screaming at "sinners", but loving and accepting them. It was the Pharisees He screamed at for the way they perverted God's message, judging all those around them and making God unattainable, yet they themselves living in gross hypocrisy.

    A Christian man today is even thought to have integrity by standing up against the perceived sin of gay people. Such a man is branded righteous. They practice “righteous prejudice.”

    There is on record the unnamed televangelist (who was caught with a prostitute and asked for forgiveness) stated that he would KILL any gay man who approached him. Real Christian behavior from a “Man of God” who proudly admits he will break one of the Ten Commandments of God and think that God will justify it.

    Many homophobic straight Christians justify their discrimination saying WE are disobeying God, but if they are so against us because we are breaking the commandments of God, why are they not using that same fury and rage towards their own brands of immorality?

    Teenagers are having non-stop premarital sex, there is a 50% divorce rate, 50% (or more) cheating rate. Adult sex runs rampant in our society as a healthy way to find each other's soul mate and I don't hear any "Focus on Family" groups screaming about that or making laws to make unwed sex a crime or laws to stop divorce (the real danger to marriage) or even laws to ban porn from the internet or sex and violence on TV. Why? Because that would mean all their friends, families, co-workers, pastors and church members would be in their line of attack. And that would make them VERY UNPOPULAR. And no one wants to make premarital sex, divorce or remarrying against the law, because...what if their own marriage doesn't work out? Or their teenage kid might get caught having sex with another teen...and I know every red-blooded American male, Christian or nonChristian...takes an occasional peek at internet porn...and what would we watch if they stopped all the killing, sex and adultery on our soap operas and TV shows...so...we'll just keep our mouths shut about lust, fornication, adultery, remarrying and divorce. Besides, "God will forgive me and my family, we're Christians."

    But homosexuals...they're an abomination to God!

    So the real reason that homophobic people can’t relate to us is because we are not like them, we are a small minority…so therefore…we are NOT normal but perverse.  They stick to their convictions and justify their prejudice, yet the average American doesn’t even know ANY gay person personally.

    We are the BOOGIE MAN. The new punching bag.

    They believe the stereotypes about us and make judgments and think God supports them. They have embraced bias, prejudice, injustice and vote on laws preventing gay people any rights to happiness going against what America stands for: the pursuit of happiness...liberty and justice for all...unless you are gay.

    The church has become the leader in its fight to destroy the lives of gay people because we are the enemy. Somehow now, according to another famous Christian televangelist…we are the cause of terrorist attacks, tsunamis, earthquakes, and floods!!!

    Really?! Wow, who knew we had so much power!

    But then I hear that these loudmouthed televangelists don't represent the feelings of the majority of Christians, but if this is true...why DON'T they speak up about it? They are tight lipped not wanting to offend their own, but in the course they have offended and ostracized the gay community, an entire population of people who need Jesus Christ.

    No one wants to side with gay people because others might THINK they are gay, sinful, or a supporter of sinful people, but again I will say...Jesus was a supporter of sinful people...ALL OF US, gay, straight or otherwise.

    And they are so proud to be Americans. America the land where you can be yourself and not be persecuted...and then they persecute us.

    So I say to those Christian Americans who justify their cold, judgmental and unrighteous behavior towards us, I will remind them of the words of Jesus: "...'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' " - Matthew 25:40

    So though most American Christians pride themselves as being moral, fair-minded, intelligent and godly people of integrity; they are really running on their prejudices, fears and insecurities, stroking their egocentric sense of superiority and manipulated by peer pressure more than they are on Jesus Christ, who taught that prejudice of any kind has no place in the life of any humble servant of God.

     

    © 2006 Edrick


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  •  04-01-2008, 7:03 PM

    Re: The Real Reason Straight Americans Can’t Accept Gay Americans

     

    But homosexuals...they're an abomination to God!

    So the real reason that homophobic people can’t relate to us is because we are not like them, we are a small minority…so therefore…we are NOT normal but perverse.  They stick to their convictions and justify their prejudice,

    While I can accept gays being allowed to exist, I will not tolerate them being admitted into the Christian Church. The Bible is VERY Clear,

    they're an abomination to God!

    PERIOD, no debate , no discussion is needed for me.

     

     

    yet the average American doesn’t even know ANY gay person personally.

    I know several, and I consider them Friends.


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  •  04-02-2008, 3:23 AM

    Re: The Real Reason Straight Americans Can’t Accept Gay Americans

    No really I want to understand Paladin. You are saying something that I think I am going to find incongrous and I want to understand how it is not. You seem a rational person (even though I know faith and religion are not entirely rational things, I count myself as an adherent of Christ though I suspect we may see things differently) If this is better left to private messages then fine delete this and PM me but I really truly want to understand. That having been said :

    Do you eat shellfish ? lobster, crab, clam, mussel, etcetera
    Can we sell our children into slavery ?
    Do you condone owning slaves ?
    Have you ever, or do you know anyone that attends your church that has worked on your sabbath ?
    Do you play football or even just toss the " 'ol pigskin" around ?
    Do you wear clothes of only 1 material at a time ?

    I am not trying to start a fight, I want to understand. The same passages that call homosexuality an abomination condone owning slaves and selling our children into slavery, and call for death to practitioners of homosexuality as much as for eaters of shellfish, people who touch dead pig flesh, wear garments made of more than one type of thread, and many other things.

    I honestly don't see how you can rip one part of that out and follow it and not the rest. (I really wish you could see the confusion and yearning for understanding on my face, I know you'll likely think I am looking for a fight but I really want to understand). I mean I can see putting away "the law" because of the new covenant in Christ, but don't you either choose to put down all of the law or carry it all not bits and pieces as it serves ?

    Again as I've said I am not looking for a war, or really even a debate on this. I seek understanding and clarity.  Of course I think this could end up with both of us tripping all over Romans14:14 so after asking this one time for you to teach me on this matter so the scales can fall from my eyes
    and I can see clearly I won't ask again. If you opt to not try to educate me in this matter I will continue stumbling in darkness looking for a different teacher. Please help me understand, I thought I read and understood what Peter and Paul said I am willing to be shown I missinterperted them.


    Your post was deleted by Paladin.Reason: get off the forum
    You are banned, going for walks in peaceful places is bannable now
    Paladin wrote:
    I will also be making an official report with the Police.That was a Threat.Be prepared for the consequences.

  •  04-02-2008, 7:50 AM

    Re: The Real Reason Straight Americans Can’t Accept Gay Americans

    Paladin wrote:

     

    But homosexuals...they're an abomination to God!

    So the real reason that homophobic people can’t relate to us is because we are not like them, we are a small minority…so therefore…we are NOT normal but perverse.  They stick to their convictions and justify their prejudice,

    While I can accept gays being allowed to exist, I will not tolerate them being admitted into the Christian Church. The Bible is VERY Clear,

    they're an abomination to God!

    PERIOD, no debate , no discussion is needed for me.

     

     

    yet the average American doesn’t even know ANY gay person personally.

    I know several, and I consider them Friends.

     

    OK,,,,This is why I am not a supporter of the church....People choose to only follow the bible in parts not as a whole..People pick and choose and ignore other things...If you are going to follow it..then follow it....if not...well..then open your damm mind to other things ,,,

    And would someone pls tell me how everytime a Christian on here talks about homosexuals not being allowed in the church they follow up with but I do have gay friends...What kind of friend are you when you can't accept someone as who they are..People say that they just don't like their lifestyle...well it isn't just their lifestyle dammit...it is their life!!...If I had a friend tell me that they can't accept or don't agree with my life and can't support them they wouldn't be my damm friend...

    Friends to me accept others regardless of everything...am I wrong here/?????????????

     

  •  04-02-2008, 7:57 AM

    Re: The Real Reason Straight Americans Can’t Accept Gay Americans

    This is not towards paladin what-so-ever.

    I noticed that most people that uses the bibles to put down, condone etc... certain things to support their feelings inside, will do exactly that, pick and chose what suits them fine from the bible, quote those passages but though totally ignored the rest of the bible. That's my biggest problem with this book. If people want to use teh bible as a form of protection for feeling and believing what they do, they should READ it in full and go by EVERYTHING in the bible. But then of course you have people that will say "well times have changed and some things just changed with time" well if they can use that as a excuse to NOT follow everything in the bible, why can they not see it's the same for homosexuals? It's like a "I'll use the bible to protect the way I feel about stuff but only the parts that agree and justifies my beliefs. HYPOCRITES!! No offence to anyone out there. But think twice before using teh bible as your sheild (certainly when you go against what the bible says on certain things since times have changed)


    Just waiting till it's all over.
  •  04-02-2008, 10:37 AM

    Re: The Real Reason Straight Americans Can’t Accept Gay Americans

    zymry wrote:

    Do you eat shellfish ? lobster, crab, clam, mussel, etcetera
    Yes I do
    Can we sell our children into slavery ?
    We shouldn't but some of us do.
    Do you condone owning slaves ?
    No I don't.
    Have you ever, or do you know anyone that attends your church that has worked on your sabbath ?
    Yes I have.( which Sabath?)
    Do you play football or even just toss the " 'ol pigskin" around ?
    Many a time.
    Do you wear clothes of only 1 material at a time ?
    Everyday.

    All this proves that in the Judeo Christian belief , I will burn in hell.

    And you point is.....?

    I've known that for a long time now.
    My ticket to Hell is bought and paid in Full. I'm even travelling First Class with a window seat.
    My beliefs are not to attain Salvation, but to help get me through this time on earth.


    For the record, ( once again), I consider myself an Eclectic Christian. I do not accept that the Bible is the exact word of God. It has been touched and corrrupted by the hand of man.In the Bible I look for the Spirit of God's will .I myself decide what I will accept and follow.That does not make me a hypocrite, but an Eclectic.There is a difference. I do not bow to nor whorship God. I accept him as the Creator.When possible ,I give thanks for what I've been given.


    I feel I neither need to or want to go into each and every tennant of what I choose to follow. Neither do I proselitise my beliefs. My road is my own choosing and not for any other to follow.
    The Bible is very clear about homosexuality.I'm sure that you know those verses as well as I do.
    If Gays want a God, let them create their own.That is their right.They do not, have the right to transform the Bible into what suits them. Nor will I let them try.

    I notice that you use the same " stock" phrases here as what you did against Dan Lirette.That might work on someone like him, but not on an Eclectic like myself.

      

     


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  •  04-02-2008, 11:07 AM

    Re: The Real Reason Straight Americans Can’t Accept Gay Americans

    sass wrote:

     

    This is why I am not a supporter of the church....

     

     

    People choose to only follow the bible in parts not as a whole..People pick and choose and ignore other things...If you are going to follow it..then follow it....if not...well..then open your damm mind to other things ,,,

     

    It is OPEN to everything....

    And would someone pls tell me how everytime a Christian on here talks about homosexuals not being allowed in the church they follow up with but I do have gay friends...What kind of friend are you when you can't accept someone as who they are..

    The best kind that they can have, thank you very much, because I have actually bled for them which I can safely say is more than what most of you here have done.

    I tell it to  them like it is, that Homosexuality is a genetic abnormaility.( as in abnormal). It is not the norm. If it were, mankind would have dissapeared long ago.

    If I wish to aspire to The Kingdom of Heaven, I must first answer for my past and then follow a specific religious Doctorine.  I choose not to. The same restrictions for entry apply to gays. There is no " Back Door" into Heaven, pardon the pun.

     

    Be careful where you throw those stones.....

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    People say that they just don't like their lifestyle...well it isn't just their lifestyle dammit...it is their life!!...If I had a friend tell me that they can't accept or don't agree with my life and can't support them they wouldn't be my damm friend...

    Friends to me accept others regardless of everything...am I wrong here/?????????????

     


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  •  04-02-2008, 11:50 AM

    Re: The Real Reason Straight Americans Can’t Accept Gay Americans

    I am sorry but I do not recall throwing or tossing stones at anyone...I made a general comment based on my beliefs and observations..I may have quoted u in my response but i did not single you out as the only person ..

    I really feel the last comment you made Paladin in your response is uncalled  for..Good day Mr moderator..I am out of here...

  •  04-02-2008, 11:51 AM

    Re: The Real Reason Straight Americans Can’t Accept Gay Americans

    By admitting homosexuality is a genetic abnormality, you're admitting you don't believe a homosexual person has any choice in the matter.  How is it that God does not permit such a person access into Heaven, when it is God himself that created the homosexual with the genetic abnormality?  How can a person be punished for conduct over which that person has no control, and worse, denied any possibility of access to heaven?

    Going one step further, that means homosexuals are all born children of Satan, here to defile us straights.

    Hahahah,  I don't believe in any religion, I just like diatribe-ing.

     

    Disclaimer:  The writer of the above comments does not actually believe any of what is written, and is merely attempting to make a point.

  •  04-02-2008, 11:52 AM

    Re: The Real Reason Straight Americans Can’t Accept Gay Americans

    One more thing..."A Gentetic Abnormality" as u call it is a poor reason to not permit people in a church...Does this include all abnormalities...or just this one?...Like I said..I am off this site
  •  04-02-2008, 12:30 PM

    Re: The Real Reason Straight Americans Can’t Accept Gay Americans

    Paladin wrote:

    Do you eat shellfish ? lobster, crab, clam, mussel, etcetera
    Yes I do
    Can we sell our children into slavery ?
    We shouldn't but some of us do.
    Do you condone owning slaves ?
    No I don't.
    Have you ever, or do you know anyone that attends your church that has worked on your sabbath ?
    Yes I have.( which Sabath?)
    Do you play football or even just toss the " 'ol pigskin" around ?
    Many a time.
    Do you wear clothes of only 1 material at a time ?
    Everyday.

    All this proves that in the Judeo Christian belief , I will burn in hell.

    And you point is.....?

    That the same set of verses that you are clinging to with "homosexuality is an abomination" say that by the very same covenant I should be exacting God's wrath upon your body.

    Paladin wrote:

    I've known that for a long time now.
    My ticket to Hell is bought and paid in Full. I'm even travelling First Class with a window seat.
    My beliefs are not to attain Salvation, but to help get me through this time on earth.

    This honestly the first time I have seen anybody with that stance say it out loud. And as choices of belief systems and morality go I think it's a good one. Kudos to you. We have choosen different parts but you're right we don't need to debate the relative merits of those parts they work for us and neither of us get to sit in judgement of the other. I wanted to understand something you did in a very (usually private and) personal part of your life and you have done so.

    Paladin wrote:

    For the record, ( once again), I consider myself an Eclectic Christian. I do not accept that the Bible is the exact word of God. It has been touched and corrrupted by the hand of man.In the Bible I look for the Spirit of God's will .I myself decide what I will accept and follow.That does not make me a hypocrite, but an Eclectic.There is a difference. I do not bow to nor whorship God. I accept him as the Creator.When possible ,I give thanks for what I've been given.

    This is the first time I have seen you or anyone use the phrase "Eclectic Christian" it could be because I am still relatively new here and with recent events religion has been an even more touchy subject around here than usual.

    Paladin wrote:

    I feel I neither need to or want to go into each and every tennant of what I choose to follow. Neither do I proselitise my beliefs. My road is my own choosing and not for any other to follow.
    The Bible is very clear about homosexuality.I'm sure that you know those verses as well as I do.
    If Gays want a God, let them create their own.That is their right.They do not, have the right to transform the Bible into what suits them. Nor will I let them try.

    The Bible is "very clear" on a great many things. We aren't picking and choosing the same things and now that I know that that is your playing field it will no longer cause mine to be filled with stumbling blocks. Personally I don't see them trying to rewrite the Bible to suit anything. I see them trying to be recognized by governments so they can have the same protection, responsibility, and perks under the law as any other people. They wouldn't need to rewrite the parts I adhere to to be loved by me or anyone else.

    Paladin wrote:

    I notice that you use the same " stock" phrases here as what you did against Dan Lirette.That might work on someone like him, but not on an Eclectic like myself.

    You called it an abomination so I asked about other things that are considered abominations. Yes I do infact have a page of "yeah well these are an abomination too" bookmarked. A few of them infact and a youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-zhNiGlogQ (from "the west wing" tv show)

    They aren't supposed to "work" on anyone. I fully accept that (because it has been my experience) that anyone with any firmly held belief isn't going to have their foundations shaken by me (and thats a good thing hold firm in what you believe you have to stand for something). I really want to understand people and how they can do things they do that seem weird (to me) for whatever reason. Yes my posts in regards to Dan and Notme were, arguably, coming with a different tone than these to you. I feel in both cases I was "responding" in kind or as in kind as I could.

    Mine tend to go along the lines of "do not make impure what I have made clean" " I can do all things...." "do not cause to stumble" "do good to those that persecute you" "Elijah was a man just like any other man..." "love your neighbor as you love yourself..."  "judge not lest ye be judged..." "for all have sinned..."

    Those are mine that see me through and keep my compass where I want it. Do I waiver from them at times, demonstrably yes as there are people I would doharm to rather then trying to understand them. I solace myself with the fact that they aren't really people but monsters (Paul Bernardo). But I also believe that while his, and my , and yours, and Hitler's to name a few tickets to Hell in a pretty handbasket have been bought and paid by our own deeds since time before remembering that someone came and fulfilled that law, and paid that price so I can eat lobster, and plant and wear what I want, love whom I love, play football, and let other people worry about who gets stoned or set on fire in the town square.

    You have done what I asked you to do. Thank you very much. I think we have both remained civil thus far, and we have our cards on the table. unless this subject gets broached again, or if I get asked to expound further I won't venture to this kind of discussion again. I know it is a personal thing for people.


    Your post was deleted by Paladin.Reason: get off the forum
    You are banned, going for walks in peaceful places is bannable now
    Paladin wrote:
    I will also be making an official report with the Police.That was a Threat.Be prepared for the consequences.

  •  04-02-2008, 3:17 PM

    Re: The Real Reason Straight Americans Can’t Accept Gay Americans

    Lord Denning wrote:

    By admitting homosexuality is a genetic abnormality, you're admitting you don't believe a homosexual person has any choice in the matter.  How is it that God does not permit such a person access into Heaven, when it is God himself that created the homosexual with the genetic abnormality?  How can a person be punished for conduct over which that person has no control, and worse, denied any possibility of access to heaven?

     

     

    Who says that God himself created the Homosexual?

    Even Gods creations can mutate along the way. Yes Gods works is succeptable to " fu(k ups " like anything else.

    Going one step further, that means homosexuals are all born children of Satan, here to defile us straights.

    Hahahah,  I don't believe in any religion, I just like diatribe-ing.

     

    Disclaimer:  The writer of the above comments does not actually believe any of what is written, and is merely attempting to make a point.


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  •  04-02-2008, 3:32 PM

    Re: The Real Reason Straight Americans Can’t Accept Gay Americans

    sass wrote:

    I am sorry but I do not recall throwing or tossing stones at anyone...I made a general comment based on my beliefs and observations..I may have quoted u in my response but i did not single you out as the only person ..

    I really feel the last comment you made Paladin in your response is uncalled  for..Good day Mr moderator..I am out of here...

    And I dear Sass feel for YOUR comments questioning my "Friendship "were also uncalled for. If you can't take it, maybe you shouldn't dish it out?

    This is twice now that you have stormed off this Site because People did not agree with your outlook on life.

    If you can not tolerate a different point of view, then maybe, you do not belong on this Site. You alone must decide that.


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  •  04-02-2008, 3:43 PM

    Re: The Real Reason Straight Americans Can’t Accept Gay Americans

    This thread is made to make straight American males appear to be bad based on their preferences, values. and upbringing. Because a straight American doesn't like the gay lifestyle or may be homophobic does not make him wrong. He's only living his life like The American Constitution says allows him to. Had this study delved a bit deeper it might state most straight American males don't like other straight American males either.
    Remember yesterday, respect tomorrow, live for today.
  •  04-02-2008, 3:47 PM

    Re: The Real Reason Straight Americans Can’t Accept Gay Americans

    willie c wuddle wrote:
    This thread is made to make straight American males appear to be bad based on their preferences, values. and upbringing. Because a straight American doesn't like the gay lifestyle or may be homophobic does not make him wrong. He's only living his life like The American Constitution says allows him to. Had this study delved a bit deeper it might state most straight American males don't like other straight American males either.

     

     

    Dems fighting words Wuddle...take that..


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